in 


10 

3 


B 


HIS  TALK  WITH  LINCOLN 


HIS  TALK  WITH 

LINCOLN 

BEING  A  LETTER  WRITTEN  BY 

JAMES  M.  STRADLING 

WITH  A  PREFACE  BY 

LORD  CHARNWOOD 

AND  AN  INTRODUCTION  BY 

LEIGH  MITCHELL  HODGES 


THE  RIVERSIDE  PRESS 

MDCCCCXXII 


COPYRIGHT,  1922,  BY  THE  OUTLOOK  COMPANY 

COPYRIGHT,  Ip22,  BY  HOUGHTON  MIFFLIN  COMPANY 

ALL  RIGHTS  RESERVED 


-sofu 


PREFACE 

BY  LORD  CHARNWOOD 
I  HAVE  been  asked  to  write  a  pref 
ace  to  a  letter  here  published  for  the 
first  time,  written  with  no  suspicion 
that  it  would  become  literature,  by 
a  man  belonging  to  Lincoln's  "  plain 
people,"  and  describing  with  keen 
intelligence  and  sympathy  an  ordi 
nary  and  characteristic  incident  of 
the  darkest  days  of  Lincoln's  life. 

When  I  have  come  across  any 
similar  publication,  of  something 
which  an  unknown  man  has  writ 
ten  very  well,  I  have  generally  felt 
that  the  more  pretentious  preface, 


Preface 

attached  to  it  by  the  hand  of  a  less 
unknown  writer,  is  rather  a  tire 
some  thing.  Yet  I  venture  on  such 
a  preface :  first,  for  the  sake  of  the 
friend  who  asks  me  to  do  so;  sec 
ondly,  because  I  suppose  I  may  in 
duce  a  few  more  people  to  read  the 
letter  that  follows,  which  I  think 
they  should  do;  thirdly,  because 
Englishmen  enjoy  doing  anything 
to  honour  the  great  American  to 
whom,  in  spite  of  his  most  rare  gen 
ius,  in  spite,  too,  of  some  real  differ 
ences  between  his  own  people  and 
them,  they  feel  themselves  inti 
mately  akin. 

They  were  very  dark  days  when 
this  letter  was  written  —  the  days 

C  vi 


Preface 

between  Fredericksburgand  Chan 
cellors  ville.  Lincoln's  often  star 
tling  and  nearly  perpetual  flow  of 
humour  can  be  so  described,  by  far 
less  humorous  admirers,  as  to  seem 
an  almost  inhuman  thing,  an  "  in 
dustrious  jocularity y  (to  use  the 
phrase  of  a  solemn  old  gentleman 
whom  I  knew) ,  which  grows  tedi 
ous  to  ordinary  mortals.  It  was,  of 
course,  nothing  of  the  kind ;  and  I 
do  not  want  to  dwell  ponderously 
upon  any  of  the  touches  in  this  let 
ter  ;  but  it  does  make  Lincoln  more 
real,  and  not  a  shade  less  humorous 
to  me,  to  see  him  vividly  portrayed 
upon  an  occasion  when  there  really 
were  things  that  hecould  havejoked 
C  vi 


Preface 


about,  but,  while  others  smiled,  his 
awful  sadness  never  relaxed. 

Hosts  of  people,  who  did  not  think 
Lincoln  a  great  man,  soon  found  out 
that  he  was  a  good  man,  and  re 
flected  later  that  this  is  sometimes 
a  more  useful  thing  to  be.  The  pe 
riod  of  this  letter  was  just  the  pe 
riod,  in  looking  back  on  which  men 
have  said :  that  Lincoln  saved  the 
Union ;  that  it  was  a  tremendously 
difficult  feat ;  and  that  it  is  impos 
sible  to  tell  how  he  did  it  except  by 
being  so  very  honest.  This  is  so 
nearly  true  that  one  would  only  get 
into  a  mist  of  words  if  one  criticized 
it.  But  there  is  one  thing  to  be  re 
membered  alongside  of  it.  Lincoln 

C  viii 


Preface 

triumphed  —  or,  rather,  his  cause 
triumphed,  if  he  did  not  —  because 
his  heart  was  right.  Let  us  add  that 
his  heart  was  so  right  that  he  did  his 
job  supremely  well. 

I  am  tempted  here  to  dwell  on 
one  of  the  ways  in  which  he  did  his 
job  better  than  anybody  looking  on 
could  imagine  at  the  time.  The 
letter  itself  suggests  one  of  those 
ways,  his  management  of  the  cause 
of  emancipation.  I  wish  to  indicate 
another,  his  military  administration. 

The  post  of  a  civil  administrator, 
who,  when  a  free  people  is  at 
war,must  always  control  its  armed 
forces,  is  always  one  of  appalling 
difficulty.  If  a  reader  of  history  has 


Preface 


the  imagination  and  the  elementary 
knowledge  of  affairs  to  spot  what 
some  of  the  difficulties  are,  he  can 
discover  that  Lincoln  met  them  as 
well  as  any  man  has  ever  done.  But 
there  is  more  to  be  said. 

When  Lincoln  interfered,  as  he 
sometimes  reluctantly  did,  with  the 
plans  of  the  military  commanders 
under  him,  he  showed  in  the  essen 
tial  points  far  sounder  military  judg 
ment  than  they  did.  It  seems  im 
pudent  to  say  this  when  military 
historians,  who  start  very  properly 
with  the  presumption  that  the  mil 
itary  man  will  be  right  and  the  in 
terfering  civilian  wrong,  have  said 
the  contrary.  But  certain  crucial 


Preft 


ace 


instances  happened  shortly  before 
and  shortly  after  the  time  of  this 
letter,  in  which,  when  the  point  is 
once  clearly  seen,  it  is  manifest  that 
the  military  critics  have  been  quite 
wrong  about  Lincoln. 

Not  long  before  this,  Lincoln  had 
hampered  McClellan  in  the  Pen 
insula  by  withholding  from  him 
forces  that  McClellan  thought  nec 
essary  for  taking  Richmond,  which 
he  thought  he  could  do.  Why? 
Because  Lincoln  realized,  and  Mc 
Clellan  did  not,  that  even  a  cer 
tainty  of  taking  Richmond  would 
not  have  been  worth  any  appre 
ciable  risk  of  losing  Washington, 
for  Richmond  was  in  no  way  vital  to 


Preface 


the  South,  and  Washington — if  for 
no  other  reason,  yet  because  of  the 
effect  which  its  fall  must  have  had 
in  Europe  —  was  vital  to  the  North. 
A  little  later,  but  still  before  this 
letter,  McClellan  had  beaten  Lee 
at  the  Antietam ;  and  again,  not  long 
after  the  letter,  Meade  beat  him 
again  at  Gettysburg.  On  these  oc 
casions  Lincoln  put  every  possible 
pressure  upon  each  of  these  gen 
erals  in  turn  to  do,  what  neither  of 
them  did,  and  bring  about  a  fur 
ther  battle  without  delay.  Why? 
Because  Lincoln  realized,  what  Mc 
Clellan  and  Meade  in  turn  would  not 
grasp,  that  a  fair  chance  of  crushing 
Lee's  army  entirely,  before  it  could 


Preface 

escape  south  of  the  Potomac,  was 
worth  the  risk  of  any  defeat  which 
that  army  could,  in  its  condition  at 
either  of  these  moments,  have  in 
flicted  on  the  North. 

This  is  that  sort  of  simple  reck 
oning  with  obvious  facts,  which  any 
body  could  do,  which  hardly  one  in 
ten  thousand  of  us  habitually  does, 
and  which,  in  the  superb  loneliness 
of  his  melancholy  thought,  Lincoln 
almost  always  did.  He  was  like  that 
in  his  dealing  with  the  larger  issues 
of  state.  He  was  like  that  in  those 
matters  of  ordinary  duty,  in  a  sense 
larger  still,  with  which  every  man 
and  woman  has  to  deal  every  day. 
I  recall  here  that  he  was  like  this  in 

C  xiii 


Preface 

military  matters  because  it  may 
help  to  set  the  pages  which  follow 
in  their  true  light  if  the  reader  will 
remember  that  the  kind,  simple,  and 
sore  troubled  being  who  stands  out 
in  them  was  a  terribly  efficacious 
Commander-in-Chief  of  the  forces 
of  the  United  States. 

These,  too,  are  very  dark  days 
for  many  of  the  nations  of  the  world ; 
when  rumours  of  wars  and  the  bit 
terness  of  recent  war  abound;  and, 
instead  of  enjoying,  as  many  had 
been  tempted  to  expect,  a  sudden 
and  conclusive  victory  of  down 
trodden  justice,  we  have  to  realize 
that "  the  end  is  not  yet. "  It  is  good 
at  this  time  to  be  reminded,  as  what 

C  xiv 


Prefi 


ace 


follows  may  remind  us,  of  one  of 
those  whom  the  Great  Master  fore 
shadowed  in  the  words 

"He  that  endureth  to  the  end." 

CHARNWOOD 

LONDON,  July^  1922 


INTRODUCTION 

FOR  many  decades  Holicong  — 
once  Greenville  —  Pennsylvania, 
has  kept  its  quiet  pace  as  a  typical 
Bucks  County  cross-roads  settle 
ment.  There,  about  the  middle  of 
the  last  century,  dwelt  John  W. 
Gilbert,  justice  of  the  peace,  tan 
ner,  and  variously  important  citi 
zen.  And  there,  in  the  late  fifties, 
came  from  the  near-by  village  of 
Mechanics ville  "Jim"  Stradling, 
writer  of  the  long-hid  letter  here 
with  first  published. 

Young  Stradling  lived  with  the 
Gilbert  family  while  serving  a  sort 
of  apprenticeship  in  the  tannery. 
Then  came  the  war,  and  at  nine- 

C  xvii 


Introduction 


teen  he  enlisted  in  a  New  Jersey 
cavalry  regiment  recruited  around 
Lambertville,  just  across  the  Dela 
ware  from  the  rich-grown  slopes 
of  Bucks. 

Of  his  career  the  main  facts 
were  his  marriage  with  a  volunteer 
army  nurse,  teaching  in  a  South 
ern  school,  long  residence  in  Phila 
delphia,  where  he  was  connected 
with  a  publishing  house,  and  sub 
sequent  removal  to  Beverley,  New 
Jersey,  where  he  died  some  six 
years  ago. 

Meantime  this  letter  which 
pleased  its  recipients  was  pushed 
into  a  pigeonhole  to  yellow  with 
the  years,  but  happily  to  escape 
xviii 


Introduction 


the  fate  of  much  similar  testimony 
concerning  other  momentous  men 
and  times. 

As  a  historical  portrait  it  speaks 
for  itself,  marking  its  author  for 
one  day,  at  least,  a  great  reporter. 
If  anything  could  deepen  its  im 
pression,  it  would  be  remembrance 
that  the  winter  of  1863  shadowed 
the  forces  and  friends  of  the  Union 
with  a  weight  of  gloom  which 
only  a  Gettysburg  could  dispel. 
LEIGH  MITCHELL  HODGES 


HIS  TALK  WITH  LINCOLN 


HIS  TALK  WITH   LINCOLN 

CAMP  BAYARD,  VIRGINIA 
March  6,  1863 

MR.  JOHN  W.  GILBERT, 

GREENVILLE,  PA. 
MY  DEAR  FRIEND  JOHN  : 
I  arrived  safely  in  camp  yesterday 
afternoon  and  found  Captain  Boyd 
and  the  boys  all  well.  The  captain 
was  so  glad  to  see  me  that  he  sent 
me  in  charge  of  a  squad  of  men  out 
on  picket  that  night  on  the  Rappa- 
hannock  River.  On  returning  from 
my  furlough  I  had  a  number  of 
quite  exciting  experiences,  which 
I  will  relate  as  best  I  can. 

On  leaving  thy  beautiful  home, 


:;;;0:n  ...{Lincoln 

which  had  been  an  exceedingly 
happy  one  to  me  for  nearly  three 
years,  I  took  the  stage  for  Lambert- 
ville,  New  Jersey,  where  I  soon 
boarded  a  train  for  Trenton,  and  an 
other  one  at  Philadelphia  for  Wash 
ington.  At  Baltimore  we  had  quite 
a  time  getting  through  the  city,  for 
we  were  pulled  through  it  by  a  team 
of  mules,  and  it  was  quite  slow  work. 
The  driver  of  the  mules  used  some 
queer  language  which  I  suppose  the 
mules  understood,  for  whenever  he 
used  that  language  and  cracked  his 
long  whip  the  mules  just  did  their 
best  towards  pulling.  It  was  slow 
work,  but  we  landed  in  due  time  on 
the  other  side  of  Baltimore. 

[4 


Lincoln 


I  arrived  in  Washington  about 
nine-thirty  the  next  morning,  and 
at  once  hunted  up  a  restaurant,  for 
I  felt  quite  empty.  There  is  one 
thing,  John,  that  thee  may  be  sure 
was  left  out  of  that  meal,  and  that 
was  "  hardtack" !  For  one  meal  they 
were  left  offthe  bill  of  fare.  After  fin 
ishing  my  breakfast,  I  walked  down 
to  the  river,  where  I  found  a  river 
steamer  which  was  being  loaded 
and  which  was  going  to  the  front 
that  night.  I  presented  my  furlough 
to  the  captain  and  told  him  I  should 
be  pleased  to  go  with  him  to  Acquia 
Creek  that  night.  To  my  great  as 
tonishment  he  refused  to  take  me 
on  board.  I  said  to  him  that  my  fur- 

[5 


Lincoln 


lough  expired  the  next  day  and  I 
was  anxious  to  get  to  the  front. 

I  told  him  that  if  I  remained  over 
the  Provost  Guard  might  pick  me 
up  and  hustle  me  off  with  a  lot  of 
real  deserters  to  the  front,  but  I  did 
not  want  to  go  that  way.  My  plead 
ing  with  him,  however,  had  no  ef 
fect,  so  I  walked  up  to  the  Capitol, 
and  walked  through  it  and  came 
out  and  walked  down  Pennsylva 
nia  Avenue,  towards  the  "  White 
House."  I  was  thinking  hard  all 
the  time  and  wondering  what  I  was 
going  to  do. 

While  trudging  down  the  Ave 
nue  a  sudden  thought  —  why  not 
see  the  President — flashed  into  my 


Lincoln 


mind,  and  I  started  for  the  "  White 
House. ' '  I  supposed  that  all  I  would 
have  to  do  would  be  to  go  down  to 
the  "White  House/'  knock  on  the 
front  door,  and  if  the  President  was 
not  in,  Mrs.  Lincoln  could  tell  me 
where  he  was  and  probably  invite 
me  in  to  wait  until  he  returned.  (I 
know,  John,  that  thee  and  Letitia, 
and  the  girls  will  laugh  your  heads 
off  when  you  read  this,  and  then 
you  will  exclaim — we  did  not  think 
Jim  was  that  green. ) 

When  I  reached  the  front  door 
of  the  "  White  House  "  I  found  two 
or  three  policemen  on  guard,  who 
said  to  me,  "  Well,  Country,  what 
do  you  want  ? ' '  I  told  them  I  wanted 

7  3 


Lincoln 


to  see  the  President,  when  they 
showed  me  into  a  very  large  room 
which  was  full  of  people.  Of  course 
I  was  very  much  bewildered  and 
did  not  know  which  way  to  turn. 

I  finally  picked  up  courage  to 
ask  a  gentleman  near  to  me  if  these 
people  had  assembled  to  hear  the 
President  make  a  speech.  He  re 
plied  with  a  twinkle  in  his  eye,  after 
he  had  sized  me  up,  that  "the peo 
ple  were  assembled  to  see  the  Pres 
ident,  but  that  he  was  not  going  to 
make  a  speech,  but  that  every  one 
would  have  to  wait  their  turn  to  be 
called  into  his  room  for  a  personal 
interview."  After  thanking  him,  I 
looked  around  the  large  room  to  see 

c  s 


Lincoln 


if  I  could  see  any  one  I  knew.  Pres 
ently  I  saw  General  Hooker,  stand 
ing  over  on  one  side  of  the  room, 
near  a  side  door.  At  that  momenta 
guard  opened  the  door  and  General 
Hooker  passed  in.  I  asked  one  of  the 
guards  where  people  landed  when 
they  passed  through  that  side  door. 
His  reply  was, "  Why,  greeny,  that 
goes  to  the  President's  room/' 

As  soon  as  I  could  I  edged  my 
way  around  to  that  door  and  told 
the  guard  that  I  was  a  soldier  in  dis 
tress,  and  asked  him  if  he  could  help 
me.  I  told  him  I  had  been  home  on 
a  furlough  and  —  "  You  want  to  get 
it  extended  I  suppose.  I  do  not  be 
lieve  the  President  will  do  that." 

C   9 


Lincoln 


"  I  want  to  get  to  the  front  to 
night/'  I  told  him  there  was  a 
steamer  going  down  to-night,  but 
the  captain  of  the  steamer  had  re 
fused  me  passage.  "  Oh,"  he  said, 
"that  is  an  Indian  of  another  skin." 
I  asked  him  what  he  meant  by  that, 
when  he  said,  "  It  is  a  horse  of  an 
other  color."  He  looked  at  me  and 
said,  "  You  are  very  green,  aren't 
you?"  I  acknowledged  that  I  was 
just  slightly  like  a  green  apple,  but 
I  told  him  I  could  learn,  and  in  fact 
I  had  learned  a  whole  lot  since  ten 
o'clock  this  morning.  I  said  to  him 
that  if  I  could  get  a  chance  to  put 
my  case  before  the  President,  and 
get  him  to  thoroughly  understand 

C 


Lincoln 


that  I  was  endeavoring  to  get  to 
and  not  from  the  front,  that  he 
would  assist  me.  Whenhehadheard 

me  through  he  said  "  D n  all 

steamboat  captains."  Probably  he 
had  run  up  against  a  steamboat 
captain  some  time  in  his  career,  too. 
He  took  my  furlough  and,  call 
ing  another  guard  to  watch  the  door, 
disappeared.  He  was  gone  for  a 
long,  long  time.  While  I  was  wait 
ing  a  very  nicely  dressed  gentle 
man  came  to  the  guard,  and  show 
ing  him  his  card,  he  was  passed  in. 
I  asked  the  guard  who  that  was  that 
could  go  in  by  simply  showing  his 
card.  He  replied,  "That  was  United 
States  Senator  Ben  Wade  of  Ohio/' 

C  "  3 


Lincoln 


While  still  waiting,  another  fine- 
looking  old  gentleman  and  a  lady 
came  up  and  handed  the  guard  a 
letter,  which  he  at  once  sent  in  to  the 
President.  The  lady's  eyes  were 
very  red,  and  soon  she  commenced 
to  weep  again,  and  I  heard  her  re 
mark  to  her  escort,  "  I  must  see  the 
President  to-day,  or  my  son  will  be 
shot  to-morrow." 

Of  course  I  was  very  anxious  to 
learn  who  they  were  and  what  was 
the  trouble  with  her  son,  and  was 
about  to  ask  the  guard  when  the 
other  guard,  the  one  who  had  my 
papers,  appeared  and  said, "  Follow 
me/'  I  followed  him  into  a  small 
room  where  there  was  a  gentleman 

C  12 


Lincoln 


sitting,  and  my  guard  addressed 
him  as  Mr.  Hay.  He  said,  "Please 
be  seated,  the  President  will  see  you 
very  soon." 

While  waiting  there,  Mr.  Hay 
was  passing  in  and  out  all  the  time, 
but  he  found  time  to  tell  me  that  he 
had  given  my  furlough  to  the  Pres 
ident,  with  the  statement  that  I  was 
endeavoring  to  get  to  the  front, 
while  most  of  them  were  trying 
their  best  to  get  away  from  the 
front.  I  told  Mr.  Hay  that  the  fact 
that  the  President  was  warmly  in 
clined  towards  those  soldiers  who 
remained  in  the  army  and  at  the 
front  had  trickled  down  through 
the  army.  For  that  reason  I  had  no 

c  is  n 


Lincoln 


fear  about  making  an  effort  to  see 
him.  While  sitting  there  waiting  I 
began  to  realize  where  I  was  and 
what  I  would  have  to  go  through, 
and  what  I  would  have  to  say  to  the 
President.  I  became,  as  thee  used 
to  say,  John,  weak  in  the  knees  and 
warm  under  the  collar. 

I  did  not  have  long  to  wait,  how 
ever,  for  in  a  few  minutes  Mr.  Hay 
came  in  and  said,  "  The  President 
will  see  you."  I  followed  him  into 
the  President's  room,  when  he  an 
nounced,  "  Sergeant  Stradling," 
and  passed  out.  As  I  came  abreast 
of  the  people  in  the  room,  there  sat 
Ben  Wade  and  two  other  gentle 
men  I  did  not  recognize,  and  Gen- 

C   14  I] 


Lincoln 


eral  Hooker  was  standing  up  and 
saying  good- by  to  the  President. 

As  I  approached,  the  President 
hesitated  a  moment  and  asked  me 
to  take  a  seat,  when  he  went  on  and 
said  good- by  to  General  Hooker, 
and  said,  "General,  we  shall  expect 
to  have  some  good  news  from  you 
very  soon."  I  saluted  the  general, 
which  he  returned  and  then  passed 
out. 

In  my  efforts  to  acknowledge  the 
President's  invitation  to  take  a  seat 
I  had  finally  blurted  out  that  I  would 
rather  stand.  The  President  then 
arose,  and  I  did  not  think  he  would 
ever  stop  going  up.  He  was  the 
tallest  man,  John,  I  think  I  ever 

C  15 


Lincoln 


saw.  He  then  turned  around  to  me 
and  extended  a  hand  which  was 
fully  three  times  as  large  as  mine, 
and  said,  "  What  can  I  do  for  you, 
my  young  friend  ? " 

He  had  a  grip  on  him  like  a  vise, 
and  I  felt  that  my  whole  hand  would 
be  crushed.  I  had  a  small  fit  of 
coughing,  during  which  time  I  re 
gained  my  composure.  Then  I  told 
him  my  case  briefly  as  I  could.  He 
then  signed  my  furlough,  on  which 
Mr.  Hay  had  written  across  the  face 
of  it :  "  To  any  steamboat  captain 
going  to  the  front,  please  give  bearer 
transportation/'  and  handed  it  to 
me  and  said,  "  If  I  have  any  influ 
ence  with  the  steamboat  captains, 

C 


Lincoln 


I  think  that  will  take  you  to  the 
front." 

I  thanked  him  and  was  taking 
my  leave,  when  he  said  to  Senator 
Wade,  "Senator,  we  have  had  the 
head  of  the  Army  here  a  few  min 
utes  ago,  and  learned  from  him  all 
he  cared  to  tell.  Now  we  have  here 
the  tail  of  the  Army,  so  let  us  get 
from  him  how  the  rank  and  file  feel 
about  matters.  I  mean  no  reflection 
on  you,  Sergeant,  when  I  say  the 
tail  of  the  Army." 

I  said  I  understood  him  and  knew 
what  he  was  driving  at.  He  said  a 
great  many  men  had  deserted  in 
the  last  few  months,  and  he  was  en 
deavoring  to  learn  the  cause.  He 


Lincoln 


said  there  must  be  some  good  rea 
son  for  it.  Either  the  Army  was  op 
posed  to  him,  to  their  Generals  or 
the  Emancipation  Proclamation, 
and  he  was  very  desirous  of  learn 
ing  from  the  rank  and  file  about  the 
conditions  in  the  Army.  "  None  of 
the  Generals  desert  or  resign,  and 
we  could  spare  a  number  of  them 
better  than  we  can  spare  so  many 
privates." 

Turning  around  to  me,  he  asked 
if  I  could  enlighten  him  on  any  of 
these  points.  In  the  meantime  I  had 
become  perfectly  cool,  perfectly 
composed.  The  weakness  had  dis 
appeared  from  my  knees  and  the 
heat  from  under  my  collar.  I  braced 

c i8 


Lincoln 


myself  to  tell  him  things  which  I 
knew  would  not  be  pleasing  to  him. 
I  however  determined  to  tell  him 
frankly  and  truthfully  all  I  knew 
about  the  feeling  in  the  Army,  as 
far  as  I  knew  it. 

First  I  said,  "  Mr.  President,  so 
far  as  I  know,  the  Army  has  the 
utmost  confidence  in  your  honesty 
and  ability  to  manage  this  war.  So 
far  as  I  can  learn,  the  army  had 
no  faith  in  the  ability  of  General 
Burnside.  In  fact  it  had  but  very 
little  faith  in  him,  and  no  respect 
for  his  ability.  He  appeared  to  us 
as  a  general  who  had  no  military 
genius  whatever,  and  fought  his 
battles  like  some  people  play  the 

19 


Lincoln 


fiddle,  by  main  strength  and  awk 
wardness.  Not  the  most  ap 
proved  way  of  fighting  a  battle, 
surely." 

The  President  asked  me  if  I  was 
in  the  battle  of  Fredericksburg.  I 
replied  in  the  affirmative.  "Did  you 
see  much  of  the  battle?"  I  replied 
that  when  the  fog  lifted  we  could 
see  nearly  the  whole  line.  I  ex 
plained  to  him  that  the  battle 
ground  consisted  of  a  long  and  level 
plain  and  was  what  they  call  in  Vir 
ginia  "bottom  land."  The  rebels 
were  entrenched  on  a  number  of 
low  hills  skirting  this  plain  on  the 
south  while  at  the  foot  of  Mary's 
Heights  was  a  sunken  road.  Their 

C    20 


Lincoln 


batteries  and  more  infantry  were 
entrenched  on  the  heights  proper, 
while  the  sunken  road  was  full  of 
infantry  and  sharpshooters.  This 
was  the  position  against  which 
General  Burnside  launched  Gen 
eral  Hooker's  corps,  the  flower 
of  the  army.  "You  know  too 
well  the  result,  for  I  can  observe 
the  great  gloom  which  still  hangs 
around  you  on  account  of  that 
battle." 

Senator  Wade  then  asked  me  if 
I  thought  there  was  any  excuse  for 
such  a  blunder.  I  replied  that  if  it 
was  agreeable,  I  would  give  my 
views  about  the  matter.  The  Pres 
ident  spoke  up  and  said,  "  This  is 

c  « 


Lincoln 


very  interesting  to  me,  so  please  go 
ahead." 

I  said  the  country  was  an  open 
one.  There  were  no  mountains  or 
large  rivers  to  cross,  but  both  flanks 
of  the  rebel  army  were  susceptible 
of  being  turned,  and  Lee  flanked 
out  of  his  strong  position.  Even  we 
privates  wondered  why  such  an  at 
tack  was  made.  General  Burnside 
must  have  known  of  the  sunken 
road,  for  we  of  the  cavalry  had 
been  over  this  road  with  General 
Bayard  in  1862,  and  he  must  have 
informed  General  Burnside  all 
about  it.  If  General  Burnside  had 
possessed  any  military  genius,  he 
would  have  flanked  Lee  out  of  that 


Lincoln 


strong  position,  and  fought  him 
where  he  could  have  had  at  least  an 
equal  chance. 

All  of  those  present  listened  very 
attentively,  when  the  President 
said,  "  What  you  have  stated,  Ser 
geant,  seems  very  plausible  to  me. 
When  General  Hooker  left  us  but 
a  few  minutes  ago  he  said,  <  Mr. 
President,  I  have  the  finest  army 
that  was  ever  assembled  together, 
and  I  hope  to  send  you  good  news 
very  soon.'  That  is  just  the  lan 
guage  General  Burnside  used  when 
he  left  me  shortly  before  the  battle 
of  Fredericksburg.  And  such  a  dis 
aster  that  followed  still  makes  my 
heart  sick/'  ( I  wonder  if  the  Pres- 

c 


Lincoln 


ident  has  visions  of  future  disasters 
to  follow. ) 

I  said, "  Mr.  President,  even  pri 
vates  when  on  the  ground  cannot 
help  seeing  and  wondering  why  cer 
tain  movements  are  made.  I refer to 
the  charges  of  General  Hooker  on 
our  right.  Our  duty,  however,  is  not 
to  criticise,  but  to  obey  even  if  we 
get  our  heads  knocked  off.  I  have 
found  that  soldiers  are  willing  to 
obey  without  hesitation  and  take  the 
chances  when  they  feel  that  their 
show  is  equal  to  that  of  the  enemy." 

The  President  said,  "  You  have 
said  nothing  about  how  the  soldiers 
feel  towards  the  Emancipation  Pro 
clamation/' 


Lincoln 


I  replied,  "  Mr.  President,  I  ap 
proach  the  Emancipation  Procla 
mation  with  great  reluctance,  for  I 
know  how  your  heart  was  set  on 
issuing  that  document.  So  far  as  I 
am  personally  concerned,  I  heart 
ily  approve  of  it.  But  many  of  my 
comrades  said  that  if  they  had 
known  the  war  would  free  the  <  nig 
gers  '  they  would  never  have  en 
listed,  so  many  of  them  deserted. 
Others  said  they  would  not  desert, 
but  would  not  fight  any  more,  and 
sought  positions  in  the  wagon  train ; 
the  Ambulance  Corps ;  the  Quar 
termaster's  Department,  and  other 
places,  to  get  out  of  fighting.  In  fact, 
the  ' nigger  in  the  woodpile'  is  an 

t:  *5  3 


Lincoln 


old  saying,  but  a  very  true  one  in 
this  instance. 

"  I  was  born  a  Quaker,  and  was 
therefore  an  anti-slavery  young 
man  when  I  entered  the  army. 
When  I  was  a  boy  I  attended  from 
two  to  three  debating  societies  a 
week,  and  the  slavery  question  was 
always  under  debate  in  one  form  or 
another.  I  had  heard  the  question 
debated  and  helped  debate  it  for 
two  or  three  years  before  I  entered 
the  army,  and  was  therefore  a  full- 
blooded  abolitionist,  and  welcomed 
the  proclamation  with  open  arms. 
The  issuing  of  the  proclamation 
caused  many  to  desert,  no  doubt, 
and  the  presence  of  General  Burn- 

c 


Lincoln 


side  at  the  head  of  the  army  caused 
many  others  to  leave  the  army/* 

I  suppose  the  President  and  Sen 
ator  Wade  and  the  other  two  gen 
tlemen  wondered  wrhat  they  had 
before  them,  but,  John,  I  had  been 
invited  to  the  feast  and  had  my  say. 

The  President  sat  still  a  moment 
or  two,  when  he  said,  "  Sergeant,  I 
am  very  glad  indeed  to  have  had 
your  views.  I  am  glad  to  know  how 
many  of  your  comrades  feel  about 
slavery,  and  I  am  exceedingly  glad 
you  have  mentioned  the  Emancipa 
tion  Proclamation,  for  I  shall  take 
this  opportunity  to  make  a  few  re 
marks  which  I  desire  you  to  convey 
to  your  comrades. 

C  27  3 


Lincoln 


"The  proclamation  was,  as  you 
state,  very  near  to  my  heart.  I 
thought  about  it  and  studied  it  in  all 
its  phases  long  before  I  began  to 
put  it  on  paper.  I  expected  many 
soldiers  would  desert  when  the  pro 
clamation  was  issued,  and  I  ex 
pected  many  who  care  nothing  for 
the  colored  man  would  seize  upon 
the  proclamation  as  an  excuse  for 
deserting.  I  did  not  believe  the 
number  of  deserters  would  mate 
rially  affect  the  army.  On  the  other 
hand,  the  issuing  of  the  proclama 
tion  would  probably  bring  into  the 
ranks  many  who  otherwise  would 
not  volunteer. 

"After  I  had  made  up  my  mind 

C  28  3 


Lincoln 


to  issue  it,  I  commenced  to  put  my 
thoughts  on  paper,  and  it  took  me 
many  days  before  I  succeeded  in 
getting  it  into  shape  so  that  it  suited 
me.  Please  explain  to  your  com 
rades  that  the  proclamation  was 
issued  for  two  reasons.  The  first 
and  chief  reason  was  this,  I  felt  a 
great  impulse  moving  me  to  do 
justice  to  five  or  six  millions  of 
people.  The  second  reason  was 
that  I  believed  it  would  be  a  club 
in  our  hands  with  which  we  could 
whack  the  rebels.  In  other  words, 
it  would  shorten  the  war.  I  be 
lieved  that  under  the  Constitution 
I  had  a  right  to  issue  the  proclama 
tion  as  a  <  Military  Necessity/  I 


Lincoln 


have  faith  that  it  will  shorten  the 
war  by  many  months.  How  does 
the  rank  and  file  view  General 
Hooker?" 

I  replied  that  General  Hooker 
was  a  hard  fighter.  "The boys  have 
great  respect  for  him,  as  well  as 
great  faith  in  his  ability." 

The  President  then  extended  his 
hand  and  said,  "I  thank  you  very 
much,  and  I  trust  you  will  reach 
the  front  in  the  morning." 

When  I  came  out  I  endeavored 
to  see  Mr.  Hay,  but  he  had  gone. 
The  door  guard  was  still  on  duty 
and  I  slipped  up  to  him  and  said, 
"You  need  not  call  me  < greeny' 
any  more,  for  I  have  learned  more 

i: 


Lincoln 


to-day  than  many  people  learn  in 
fifty  years." 

I  then  thanked  him  for  his  assist 
ance,  and  left  the  White  House.  I 
started  for  a  lunch  counter,  for  thee 
may  believe  I  was  hungry.  After 
filling  up  on  good  things,  in  which 
"  hardtack  "  had  no  share,  I  walked 
rapidly  to  the  boat.  I  showed  the 
captain  my  furlough  with  the  Pres 
ident' s  name  on  it.  He  gazed  at  it 
a  moment  when  he  said,  "Git 
aboard." 

About  the  time  I  had  reached 
the  deck  General  Hooker  climbed 
aboard  too.  He  took  the  captain's 
cabin,  while  I  took  to  a  pile  of  bags 
filled  with  oats.  I  pulled  the  bags 

C   31 


Lincoln 


around  and  made  quite  a  nice  bed, 
where  I  slept  all  night  and  landed 
at  Acquia  Creek  next  morning  and 
reached  the  regiment  in  the  after 
noon.  What  a  lot  of  unexpected 
experience  I  had  met  with !  I  am  no 
longer  a  "greeny"  now.  At  least  I 
do  not  believe  I  am. 

Mr.  Lincoln  was  a  very  sad,  woe 
begone,  gloomy-looking  man.  He 
did  not  smile,  and  his  face  did  not 
lighten  up  once  while  I  was  in  his 
presence.  John,  I  was  awful  glad 
to  get  out,  and  when  I  did  get  away 
I  felt  as  though  I  had  been  to  a  fu 
neral. 

Senator  Wade  did  smile  once  or 
twice,  and  so  did  the  other  two  gen- 

C   32   3 


Lincoln 


tlemen  who  were  present,  but  Lin 
coln  did  not  even  show  the  shadow 
of  a  smile.  His  long,  sad  and  gloomy 
face  haunted  me  for  days  afterward. 

I  give  his  exact  words,  as  near  as 
I  can  remember  them.  To  have  the 
President  of  the  United  States  talk 
to  me,  and  to  be  allowed  to  talk  to 
him,  was  such  an  event  in  my  life 
that  I  may  be  pardoned,  I  think,  if 
I  did  feel  "a  little  set  up,"  as  it 
were. 

Now,  John,  I  have  written  thee 
a  long  letter,  much  longer  than  I 
intended  to  write  when  I  com 
menced,  but  there  seemed  to  be 
things  to  say  and  I  could  not  resist 
the  temptation  to  say  them.  Please 

[   33   I] 


Lincoln 


thank  thy  wife  (Letitia)  for  the 
basket  of  "  good  things  "  which  she 
put  up  for  me  before  I  started,  and 
also  say  to  my  dear  little  Sarah, 
that  her  "  Dim  "  reached  the  camp 
in  safety.  With  very  kindest  re 
gards  I  remain 

Sincerely  Thine 

J.  M.  STRADLING 


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